We had a large billing dispute with BMG. In late 2003 my son opened a BMG Music account, and purchased a number of CDs. In early 2004 BMG started shipping many items that we never ordered. Those items were refused delivery, and the post office eventually returned them to BMG. After a lot of work and many phone calls, we have managed to recover our money, but BMG still has not apologized for their errors. In a letter to the Office of the Attorney General, New York, they repeat their incorrect statement that we have received duplicate credits.
We are apparently not the only folks that are having problems with BMG shipping unordered products. See this for example, and this for more discussion.
Some documents:
2004-05-03 - letter from BMG complaining that the credit card transaction failed. We have no idea why that transaction did not go thru, but are happy that it did not.
2004-05-04 - #1 phone call from Karen to BMG, asked for list of what products were billed on credit card. They said they would mail it, could not fax. The BMG account was cancelled during this phone call.
2004-05-13 - refused two large cases sent by BMG. This might have been a playstation and DVD player.
2004-05-14 - #2 phone call from Karen to BMG, spoke to Aurora, then supervisor Tracy. They said list was mailed on 2004-05-04, but we never received it. Again asked for info to be faxed. Was told it would take several days to "manually compile" info. Pointed out that it had already been mailed according to them. Got nowhere - they said will fax next week.
2004-05-15 - letter received from Chase with forms to fill out for the billing dispute.
2004-05-19 - fax of some charges received from BMG, showing some details about the merchandise, but it is incomplete. In particular, it does not include a charge for 108.97 on 2004-04-11, and many other charges. Based on a phone call to BMG on 2004-09-16, those dates on the faxed list do not include the day, they are MM/YY format. The clever folks at BMG apparently learned nothing from the Y2K problems regarding two digit year values.
2004-05-20 - #3 phone call to BMG, asked about faxed list of charges. It did not itemize by credit card charge as requested. Asked about format. Was told that the list I wanted would "take more time". Note that we have *never* received this promised list.
2004-05-27 - letter received from BMG, stating that they cannot provide an itemized list of charges. This is the document that forms the basis for our claim that BMG has no right to expect payment, since they are flatly stating, in writing, that they have no records to substantiate any of the charges they have placed on our credit card.
2004-05-28 - dispute form sent to Chase including documentation and a cover letter.
2004-05-28 - talked to Brandy at Chase - warned her that I would be disputing all future charges.
2004-06-15 - letter received from Chase showing some credits.
2004-06-22 - letter received from Chase showing the previous payment.
2004-07-13 - A second letter sent to Chase, again stating the problem.
2004-07-21 - letter from Chase acknowledging receipt of our previous letter.
2004-08-02 - letter received from Chase, asking for details of the billing dispute.
2004-08-18 - A third letter sent to Chase, again stating the problem.
2004-08-20 - letter received from Chase, basically closing the issue since we did not provide additional information. This seems to be superseded by the following letter.
2004-08-23 - letter received from Chase, basically saying we are on our own and there is nothing Chase can do.
2004-08-24 - form letter received from Chase acknowledging our previous letter.
2004-09-xx - #1 phone call by Karen to Chase - ended up shouting at them.
2004-09-08 - #2 phone call from Carl to Chase at about 15:30 (-0700). Eventually spoke to Judy Noonan at 888-821-2731 which is the problem resolution department. She says this problem is being handled by the dispute department. They also have a fraud department. Karen needs to call and add me as an authorized person on the account so I can speak in more detail to Judy.
2004-09-08 - #3,4 phone calls from Karen to Chase as recommended by Judy above. Computers were down for over an hour - told to call back later. Called at around 18:00 (-0700), some representative told me that either I had to physically be on the phone at the same time with Carl, or add Carl to the account via a written application which would take 7 to 10 days. Note that that directly contradicts the information from Judy.
2004-09-09 - #5 phone call from Karen to Judy at 08:12 (-0700) - left a message on 888-821-2731 requesting a call back.
2004-09-13 - #6 phone call from Karen to Judy at 08:12 (-0700) - left a message on 888-821-2731 requesting a call back. No return call as of 15:09 (-0700).
2004-09-14 - #7 phone call to Chase at 08:02 (-0700), left a third message on 888-821-2731 requesting a call back from Judy.
2004-09-14 - #8 phone call to Chase at 08:05 (-0700) to customer service 800-577-0636, asked to be transfered to problem resolution department. Spoke to Vernon Bent. Apparently only customer service can add me to the authorized list, but they should be able to do it over the phone. Now transferring back to customer service at 08:14 (-0700). Ok, I am apparently on as an "authorized user", not a joint account holder. Terry Kelly from customer service did that. Transferring back to problem resolution department at 08:20 (-0700). Spoke to Mr. Joseph Miller - extended discussion thru 09:06 (-0700); he was very helpful. He eventually got a conference call thru to BMG at 317-692-9200, and spoke to someone (I did not record the name) in the fraud department. Michelle is the supervisor of the fraud department, but is not available. 317-542-6391 is the direct line for the fraud department, hours 07:00 (-0500) to whenever, M-F.
BMG was asking for a charge back from Chase! Apparently that is their procedure, rather than issuing credits. Mr. Miller pointed out that is inconsistent with their previous behaviour, since they have issued other credits on this account without charge backs.
Michelle has no direct line, or last name, or extension number. Mr. Miller asked - how do we reference her? Apparently, just by first name. Mr. Miller asked if there is only one supervisor and who covers when she is not available, but got nowhere. We deal with Michelle, or no one.
Regarding the faxed list of charges from BMG dated 2004-05-19, the operator said their printout only shows the last 100 items. To get more detail, they need to request some other report. When told we specifically asked for *all* charges on 2004-05-04, she had no answer as to why that more complete report was not provided to us at that time.
It is also unclear whether those dates on that faxed list represent the date of the order, or the date of the shipment, or the date of the credit card charge.
Michelle is supposed to call me back on my cell phone, and Mr. Miller will also try to reach her later today.
I also mentioned to Mr. Miller that it is not possible to go from the faxed list of items from BMG, to the credit card charge amounts, since they don't match. Presumably, that is since a single card charge may include multiple items from the faxed BMG list. Apparently, BMG has no list where they break down each card charge into the actual items from their faxed list.
2004-09-16 - #4 phone call to BMG, called Michelle at 14:12 (-0700) on 317-692-9200, but her direct line is apparently 317-542-6280. Michelle again said that Chase would need to remove the charges, she could not do that. They don't think everything has been returned, and apparently cannot issue credits without that. I said something like "fine, Chase will be taking $2248.10 from you". She was very suprised to hear that the remaining total is $2248.10 - she was apparently expecting something around $600. So it turns out that BMG actually do have full and complete records of this account, contrary to their previous written statement of 2004-05-27, and she was looking at them. When I asked for details of a particular charge on 2004-03-28, she was able to read off the group and title of some CDs. It may be that *some* of those early charges are legitimate.
I again asked if they keep the ip address of the machine that attempted to do those orders, and she said no. I think that failure to record ip addresses is equivalent to failure to record ANI on an 800 number telephone order line. It shows lack of due diligence on their part.
The dates on the faxed list of charges from BMG use two digit years, and are in the form MM/YY. Apparently, BMG learned nothing from the Y2K problems, which should have exposed the general stupidity of using two digit year values. In this case, the problem is further compounded by the coincidence that BMG is using 05/04 as MM/YY, and I was interpreting it as MM/DD.
Given that those dates on that fax are MM/YY, they sent us a list of items that BMG wishes to claim that we ordered, and they only supplied dates to the nearest month. BMG calls that an accounting system? I wonder if their auditors know about that.
Michelle said their internal list was "technical" and they don't want to "confuse" the customer by sending that out. They need to reformat it which will take a while, should be available sometime next week. I need to call her on 2004-09-17 and supply a fax number. Karen's fax is 909-867-7643.
2004-09-17 - #5 phone call to BMG, called Michelle at 07:55 (-0700) at 317-542-6280, and that did apparently go directly to her desk. Gave her the fax number, and also asked for a spreadsheet to be emailed to bmg@byington.org. Asked for enough detail to determine which item applies to which credit card charge. For example there is a charge on 2004-03-28 for $30.90, which presumably covers multiple items. She said they don't have that information, that the card is generally charged within 3 days of the order date. I claim that they *must* have that information (or at least *had* it), since they needed it in order to do the original charge. If we have an item that we know we returned ordered on a specific date, and it does not exactly match any charge around that date, then we have no choice but to dispute all the charges around that date.
Next time I need to ask Michelle about their SBL listings for spamming and this one. See also this where "ube tracker" has some spam that is consistent with someone inside BMG playing games.
2004-09-20 - email received at bmg@byington.org from BMG, confirming that BMG is supposed to have the accounting records that we need by the 22nd.
2004-09-20 - new credit card received for Carl, envelope postmarked 2004-09-15. Note that we explicitly asked (on 2004-09-14) that I (Carl) be added as an "authorized user", NOT as a joint account holder. My impression was that that did NOT include a card, but apparently Chase interprets that differently.
2004-09-22 - #9 phone call to Chase at 10:35 (-0700) to customer service 800-577-0636 asked to transfer to problem resolution department, for Mr. Joseph Miller. Talked to Kathy, who said Mr. Miller works in the dispute department, they don't have a direct line but she is transferring me at 10:47 (-0700).
Spoke to Mr. Burton of the dispute department, and left a message for Mr. Miller. Apparently neither the problem resolution department, nor the dispute department have access to a web browser, but perhaps Mr. Miller could read this web page from his home.
2004-09-23 - email received from BMG, the accounting records should be available by the 24th.
2004-09-24 - #6 phone call to BMG, called Michelle at 11:10 (-0700), left a voice mail message. We still have not received any accounting records.
2004-09-24 - #10 phone call to Chase at 12:00 (-0700) to customer service 800-577-0636 asked to transfer to Mr. Miller in the dispute department.
Spoke to Sharron (sp?), did not get the last name, who could not transfer me to Mr. Miller. This is why we want to deal with a single person inside Chase. Rather than spending the time to educate her about this issue, I asked to speak to her supervisor.
At 12:23 (-0700), spoke to Ms. Hickinbotham. Gave her this URL since apparently there is a machine with a web browser somewhere in the building. 888-489-8452 is the direct line to the dispute department. This is her last day, but Mr. Parent is her replacement for this purpose.
2004-09-24 - email received from BMG containing the accounting records that we originally asked for over four months ago.
2004-09-25 - My analysis of those accounting records is now complete. BMG still owes us $2075.89 in refunds for merchandise that we never ordered. Sent a reply email to Michelle at BMG.
2004-09-27 - #7 phone call to BMG, called Michelle at 07:06 (-0700). Confirmed that she did receive my reply email, but she has not yet had a chance to review my reply here.
2004-09-28 - #8 phone call to BMG, called Michelle at 10:37 (-0700). Asked for a progress report - she should have a response later today or tomorrow.
2004-09-29 - email response from Michelle where she does not even try to contest any of my analysis.